Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails? | O Gauge Forum (2024)

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fabforrest
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Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails?Jan 7, 2022 17:44:16 GMT

Post by fabforrest on Jan 7, 2022 17:44:16 GMT

Very interesting. Thanks!

Also interesting. I posted here about an hour ago and it is gone. What happened?

kars2026
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Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails?Jan 7, 2022 20:39:37 GMT

Post by josef on Jan 7, 2022 20:39:37 GMT

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Jan 7, 2022 17:44:16 GMT fabforrest said:

Very interesting. Thanks!

Also interesting. I posted here about an hour ago and it is gone. What happened?

I know, I would like to know also what happened.

ptc
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Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails?Jan 8, 2022 1:12:38 GMT

Post by JDaddy on Jan 8, 2022 1:12:38 GMT

Post War American Flyer 2 rail was the technological scale leader for quite some time ... Ironically when Lionel bought American Flyer out. That was the death knell for S gauge.

Country Joe
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Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails?Jan 8, 2022 2:02:45 GMT

Post by Country Joe on Jan 8, 2022 2:02:45 GMT

Thanks for this very interesting video, Walt. He gave a very good explanation of why 3 rail track was used by all electric train manufacturers. I knew about the advantages of 3 rail track but didn’t know about the difficulty of insulating wheels 100+ years ago. I learned something. 👍

I occasionally check Bachmann’s Williams by Bachmann discussion board. There is rarely anything of interest to me discussed but a while back one member asked a question about 3 rail track. He asked why O gauge track manufacturers never went to a stud third rail like Marklin uses on their HO 3 rail track. It looks a lot better than any O gauge 3 rail track with a rail in the middle.

The answer that occurred to me was something mentioned in the video, backward compatibility. An O gauge train from 1920 can run on track made in 2020. If Lionel had changed to a stud third rail like Marklin did and used sliders under engines and operating and lighted cars then pre-war trains with rollers would not run on this new track without major modifications.

Joe
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jtrain
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Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails?Jan 8, 2022 3:17:13 GMT

Post by jtrain on Jan 8, 2022 3:17:13 GMT

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Jan 8, 2022 2:02:45 GMT Country Joe said:

Thanks for this very interesting video, Walt. He gave a very good explanation of why 3 rail track was used by all electric train manufacturers. I knew about the advantages of 3 rail track but didn’t know about the difficulty of insulating wheels 100+ years ago. I learned something. 👍

I occasionally check Bachmann’s Williams by Bachmann discussion board. There is rarely anything of interest to me discussed but a while back one member asked a question about 3 rail track. He asked why O gauge track manufacturers never went to a stud third rail like Marklin uses on their HO 3 rail track. It looks a lot better than any O gauge 3 rail track with a rail in the middle.

The answer that occurred to me was something mentioned in the video, backward compatibility. An O gauge train from 1920 can run on track made in 2020. If Lionel had changed to a stud third rail like Marklin did and used sliders under engines and operating and lighted cars then pre-war trains with rollers would not run on this new track without major modifications.

Actually, the sliders can be made to clip on to the roller attachments. I saw a nice stud rail layout a few years ago. The sliders seemed pretty easy to make, and you could run any 3 train locomotive or car with pickups. The more challenging part seemed to be laying the center stud rail. But if done properly, it looks just like 2-rail track if you are more than 6 inches away from it. I wish someone would make it available commercially. It would be a huge improvement over any other 3-rail track, in my opinion.

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Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails?Jan 8, 2022 16:46:47 GMT

Post by dlagrua on Jan 8, 2022 16:46:47 GMT

Obviously two rail track has more realism but didn't Atlas and Weaver have that at one time? It was expensive and different than Lionel, Williams, K-Line , Right of Way, MTH, KMT and any other manufacturer that made 3 rail O gauge stuff. It might not have sold that well Lionel's solution for better appearance was Super O track back in the late 50's. While it looked good, it was to late in the game and the design quickly faded away.
Then came Gargraves phantom track with the blackened center rail. IMO it looks pretty good and my layout uses it 100%. I believe that Ross products also use it. Outside third rail may look even better but it is a tedious job to install it.

firewood
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Ever wonder why Lionel Trains run on 3 Rails?Jan 8, 2022 18:16:14 GMT

Post by firewood on Jan 8, 2022 18:16:14 GMT

The 3-rail works so well for dumping out a box of track and letting the kids lay track all over the floor in any manner they please - no reverse loop troubles, just run trains.

American Flyer would have been a worthy competitor with the post-war plastics and reverse loop relays, but the Lionel market domination was just too great, I guess. Williams and MTH getting into it got me interested, now look at me - I didn't convert to 3-rail till several years ago!

Dave

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FAQs

Why does Lionel use three rails? ›

Early toy trains used two metal rail tracks like most real trains. However, manufacturers quickly found that using a center rail for electric power and the two outer rails for common or ground made electrical contact much more reliable and less prone to short circuits.

What is the most popular Lionel train gauge? ›

Lionel developed many different model engines and rail cars, as well as accessories, to allow consumers to set up their trains into life-like layouts. Lionel O gauge trains were introduced in 1915, the size that eventually became Lionel's most popular product.

What is the standard gauge for Lionel trains? ›

Lionel's popular Ready-to-Run sets are Traditional O-Gauge, and contain everything a customer needs to run their train in minutes – train set, oval of track, and, transformer.

What gauge were the original Lionel trains? ›

2-7/8-inch gauge: Joshua Lionel Cowen's first train, The Electric Express, ran on 2-7/8-inch track. Lionel made trains in this gauge between 1901 and 1905. OO gauge: Lionel OO gauge is 1:76 scale and very close in size to HO. It was manufactured by Lionel between 1938 and 1942.

Why do trains need a third rail? ›

Description. Third-rail systems are a means of providing electric traction power to trains using an additional rail (called a "conductor rail") for the purpose. On most systems, the conductor rail is placed on the sleeper ends outside the running rails, but in some systems a central conductor rail is used.

What is the difference between o scale 2 rail and 3 rail? ›

3 Rail 0 Scale has an Rail in the Centre for Electricity (hence the name) Modern 0 Scale 3 rail is Very common in the USA 2 Rail 0 Scale uses the 2 Outer rails for power, Elminatimg the need for a Rail in the middle, which is more realistic.

What is the most famous Lionel train? ›

The Lionel Santa Fe F3 is the very image of postwar Lionel. It ranks up there with Mickey Mouse and “I like Ike” as a symbol of America in the 1950s. We think it's the best of the best, the most important and most memorable locomotive of Lionel's golden era.

Which Lionel trains are worth money? ›

Determine the Value of Vintage Lionel Trains

The collectors' market is highest for trains made before 1969. Particular road names (such as Lionel Santa Fe or Lionel Union Pacific) may be in favor, increasing their value. Rare trains are generally more valuable as well. As quality increases, so does value.

What gauge are American trains? ›

Standard gauge is 4 feet, 8-1/2 inches. This is the gauge used when steam railroading began. It became the common gauge of Britain, North America, and Western Europe — except for Spain, Portugal, and Ireland.

What is the most common train gauge? ›

The HO Scale is 1:87, half of the O scale. They run on a gauge of . 625 inches. Because of its small size, the HO Scale has become one of the most popular scales for model trains.

What is the current railroad gauge? ›

…the world is the so-called standard gauge of 4 feet 8.5 inches (1.4 m), which originated with George Stephenson's pioneer Liverpool & Manchester line in 1829.

What is the difference between Lionel o27 and O gauge? ›

The primary difference between the track from an appearance standpoint is the height of O Gauge track compared to that of O-27. The O Gauge rails are taller than the O-27 rails causing the train to sit higher off of the layout surface.

When did Lionel stop making trains in the USA? ›

In 1969, the company sold their model train lines to General Mills. It continued to operate until 1993 as a holding company for their toy stores. In 2006, Lionel's electric train became the first electric toy inducted into the National Toy Hall of Fame. The model trains are still in production as Lionel, LLC.

What is the oldest Lionel train set? ›

The company introduced the first train in 1901, known as The Electric Express. Interestingly, it's the world's first electric train. Hence, it caught everyone's attention when it was first introduced as a toy model in toy stores.

What voltage do old Lionel trains use? ›

14 volts are obtained. The voltage required for illuminated accessories depends upon the lamp used. This information is given in the Lionel catalogue. Most Lionel automatic accessories operate best at approximately 12 volts.

Why do some trains have 3 locomotives? ›

There's a limit to how much tractive effort one locomotive can deliver, so railways connect multiple locomotives together to be able to pull more cars.

What is third rail power supply? ›

The darker raised rails – known as the third rail – carry 750 volts of electricity. This network carries over one third of all national passenger weekday trains and is capable of supporting very frequent services of up to 12 carriages, running at up to 100mph.

Do Lionel trains hold their value? ›

Common Post War Lionel items, in good* or very good* condition, are going for 3-7 times their original catalog price. Common Post War Lionel items, in fair* condition, are going for whatever parts value they may have.

References

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